The shire in which I reside has an Alban society and people with family history in the Clans are members of it.

Through various gatherings we support a Highland pipe and drum band, a school of Highland dancing, Scottish country dancing, home schools, Gaelic language, art and craft, geneological societies, tartan societies and games like Hurling and AFL (Australian Football League) which is a Gaelic code.

It is important for children of Scottish descent to know their Gaelic culture, language and family history. It is important for their parents to live the culture of their ancestors in the new world. It is important to know the contribution that culture has made to the new world.

Like most associations, we rely on the freedom of association. And in a liberal demonocratic society this is under threat.

The societies of which I speak reserve the right to limit membership to those who have Scottish ancestry. And the right to freely associate is being tested by those who oppose cultural unity for Whites.

If we were Aboriginals the right of our societies to include members of a specific racial ethnicity would never be questioned. But because we are white – our right to our own exclusivity is challenged.

The Scottish nation is one throughout the world because it is one people. Members of that nation might give loyalty to the country of the their birth – for example – in the new world, like New Zealand. But my feeling is that the nation of Scotia in its Clans transcends citizenship of the birth country. The nation of Scotia migrated out of Scythia and Galatia right across Europe, was long in Scotland and is now in diaspora. Yet it is still one nation and one tongue.

And the members of that nation have a unique contribution to make in any country where they are born and reside.

In the wider community, our Highland pipes are in constant demand for social and patriotic occasions – and it requires a huge support network from the societies to meet the outside demands for our unique cultural contributions.

When young people from our community home schools walked Kokoda a few years ago, they walked as Scots. They wore the national dress and at the Isurava memorial after the multicult stuff of the official ceremony was over – they sang Scotland the Brave in a capella in the bardic 10 part harmony of our people. They ditched the official masonic hijack of Kokoda and tribute to the stoic virtues that are part of these ceremonies and prayed the Lord’s Prayer in Latin. The Papua Nui Guineans were the only others there who could sing in 10 part harmony and they sang some of their beautiful songs too.

Whereever the Scots reside in the world, the blood is strong and the nation will honour the citizenship of the country where they are born. But they remain Scots.

How does this display of Scottish Nationalism, of which you speak, manifest itself outside of the context of a game?

Or is it forbidden? If so, who is forbidding it? The weak heart, or some PTB?

I regret that I lost track of this thread when the new one was posted and I missed your comment and inquiry.

Your comment / question is an excellent insight.

From personal experience, it went like this.

I was in the crowd at that soccer game. I was there when the Scottish nation in the stadium arose as one and sang “Flur na h’Alba”. And I don’t mean just the Scottish fans in the team colours. I mean fans from the opposing team dressed in the colours of the opposing team – if they were Scots, they stood as one and sang The Flower of Scotland.

What this tells me CWRWinger is that you are into the gold. The national game (by whatever name) is nationalism – probably the only free expression of it we can at present observe and participate in.

The only other time I have seen anything like it was on the documentaries of the making of The Lord of the Rings.

The scene where Rohan rides onto the field of the Pelennor. By all accounts, Jackson could not keep the N.Z. Light Horse out of it. The capital that new world nation is called Dunedin (pronounced in Gaelic: Dun Eden). This is the true Gaelic name of Edinborough. So the whites of N.Z. are of course – Scots. And where does Peter Jackson shoot The Lord of the Rings? In N.Z.

So, in the scene where the Rohirrim ride onto the field of the Pelennor, Jackson rented time after a N.Z. rugby union match. He had a stadium full of Scots and some Maori. And he said: “Now in answer to Theoden’s ‘a sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises’ – the crowd must shout to the Orc lines: ‘Death!’ Lots of great footage of Jackson there in the middle of the stadium coaching the crowd onto their dialogue.

The roar was deafening – even more impressive than an Australian vs New Zealand game.

The Clan history is a minefield because the masonic historians have hijacked it. For anyone getting into this subject, I would recommend starting with the history of the Highland Clearances (Fuadach nan Gaidheal – expulsion of the Gael). This was when the ancient Scottish Clan system was destroyed on ancestral land. And in its dismemberment, its organism can be seen clearly. Like in an autopsy, there isn’t a lot of room for bias. So it doesn’t matter whether you are reading a Jacobite or non-Jacobite historian. All report valuable information.

But the living spirit of the Clans went to the new world on the transports. Of that I am convinced.

The book we use in our shire home school is The Highland Clearances by John Prebble because he has a whole chapter on Clan Ross and we have many folk of that noble family in our shire.

Do you believe the spirited support of a sport team will morph into genuine Scottish nationalism once the spectators leave the stadium?

On another subject, why did/do the English hate the clan structure so much? What was the threat to them?

From Wikipedia:

“The Act of Proscription of 1746 incorporating the Dress Act required all swords to be surrendered to the government and prohibited the wearing of tartans or kilts. The Tenures Abolition Act ended the feudal bond of military service and the Heritable Jurisdictions Act removed the virtually sovereign power the chiefs held over their clan.

The extent of enforcement of the prohibitions varied and related to a clan’s support of the government during the rebellion, but overall led to the destruction of the traditional clan system and of the supportive social structures of small agricultural townships.”

Do you have a suggested reading on the history and culture of the ancient Scottish clans?

Christopher- as a Catholic, this is THE issue that both RC’s and Orthodox seem always to revert to, and it makes me hopping mad (as a Scot, I’m not used to bull!) in that; a) in the Beginning, Rome was the main authority- and yes, it was pagan. So, Christians had to do what they could in a pagan empire

but

Rome (east and west) became a Christian empire, and THEN, the shoe was on the other foot! We then had ‘built thy kingdom come’ on Earth, and needed never to feel ‘sorry’ we had converted it to True Religion.

So, if an empire (or a nation) is pagan, then Christians should be subservient, for building the kingdom is a matter of Grace.

But DEFENDING CHRISTENDOM is EVERY MAN’S DUTY. TO blithely think we are all limpwristed pantiwaists in this fashion, is to say Satan is our master, not Christ the King.

I think defense of Jerusalem is clearly visible in Ezra and Nehemiah, when it was their own.
I think defense of Jerusalem in the Olivet Discourse is clearly how Christians should proceed (by evacuation and stealth) when a Pagan Empire overtakes the Church.

But to equate the passivity of the NT as normative when it is OUR land, OUR Culture, OUR religion that is being destroyed, aborted, and legislated out of existence, is to partake of the blasphemous ‘two kingdoms’ theology of Luther’s wish to be non-confrontational in the aggregate, though that doughty German was pretty confrontational in the individual realms.

And no Westminster devotee, would ever say they are in favor of some Lutheran’s theology! LOL

Go with the Scots. Say you have 50,000 Scots assembled for the World Cup and Scotland is tied with the opposing team in the dying minutes of the game. Let’s say the Scots (our heros) have maybe 5 minutes to score the winning goal and take the Cup.

Fifty thousand Scots are not just going to sit there. They are going to stand up and with one voice and song, they are going to pipe in that goal. To electrify the team and give them whatever it takes to score – what are they going to sing?

That will be the national anthem.

Wikipedia has this to say:

“Although Scotland has no official national anthem, Flower of Scotland is one of a number of songs which unofficially fulfil this role, along with Highland Cathedral and the older Scotland the Brave.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_of_Scotland

There is a poll listed showing Flower of Scotland in first place.

I have read Wikipedia can be wrong, too. So, I will go with what you wrote.

************************************

L: “The dispute we are corresponding about is nothing if not ongoing.”

I agree. Sometimes the devil is in the details. Sometimes the Devil fabricates the details.

Thank you for your links. I have read through them all with great interest – as I do with all things Scottish or about Scotland.

The dispute we are corresponding about is nothing if not ongoing. At the Home School in my shire we have definitely heard from our shire Alban Society on this subject. Our experience would seem to be a microcosm of the debate that is within Scotland itself and on the NET.

The matter of the Seal has not caused any revision in http://www.royal.gov.uk/…/Descendants ofMalcolmIII/WiliamWallaceGuardianofScotland.aspx or http://www.britannica.com.

In thinking about such matters, I try to take due consideration of Clan History that is often a matter of family, community and oral history – passed down. And often this is the only correction against official spins and revisions with Agenda.

No history is without bias. Clan Wallace definitely has their version of events as do the good Scots of Elderslie and I heard a deal of it when I was there.

As an aside. I was first made aware of the importance of oral history when I attended grade school. My home state is Missouri and the history of the Civil War that we had to study diverged considerably from the family and local histories. In the public school you had to learn that Missouri was like a microcosm of the War itself: you had your progressives and winners who were upholding the Federal ‘which desired to extend the Consitutional blessings of liberty to all Americans regardless of colour’ and you had ‘Little Dixie’ the losers, bigots and slaveowners of the counties like Boone and Clay and LaFayette etc. This version of events goes on to narrate that in Mo., the War lasted for decades as it degenerated into a guerrilla war (or ‘Indian fighting’) between the JayHawkers and the Bushwhackers.

The more appropriate term, however, would have been ‘Highland Way’, given the nature of the population of S Missouri and N Arkansas. And Highland War can go on for hundreds of years not decades. When I was growing up, down at the courthouse, if the subject of Lee’s Surrender came up, you would hear the comment: ‘Still not a bad strategy. Only a Yankee or Carpetbagger thinks this will be over anytime soon.” Followed by a general laugh.

Most in Missouri were small farmers working their own lands and farms, small self employed family business and trade and craft. They were independent, they did not own slaves and were never happy about seeing them imported into Little Dixie. Ethnically they were Celts. Their people came out of the Highland Clearances in Scotland (again the Jacobite nobility), the Troubles and the Potato Faminine in Ireland (the Orange Lodges and Protestant Landlords) and the Coal Mine lockouts in Wales. This is the traditional white population of Southern and much of Central Mo and N Arkansas. They were fiercely loyal to the Confederacy because Dixie represented the Constitutional position of America which was a united states. They opposed the Federal as the overlordship of big government superceding the States and running roughshod over local and state gov’t. They fought as Americans with ties to ain countrie.

History is not only written by the victors, it is hijacked by their Agendas. I suppose that for my part, it is this background which is my bias to the claim of Clan Wallace.

On the Nat’l Anthem:

It appears the official anthem is ‘Scots Wha Hae”. True, “The Flower of Scotland” no doubt, embraces the spirit of Scotland.

On Wm’s Father’s Name:

In i999, a seal by Wm Wallace’s father was translated from arcaic Latin, even though most sources still refer to him as Malcolm. Wm had an older brother named Sir Malcolm Wallace.

“[Note: in 1999 the seal of Sir Wallace was translated from the archaic latin. On his seal it says he is the son of 'Alan'.]”

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/articles/william_wallace.htm

There is also dispute and confusion concerning Wm Wallace’s bloodline coming thru the
Cragies:

“Documented historical evidence of the line of Wallace is confusingly split. Some say he is descended from Richard the Welshman, dating back to the times of William the Conqueror – others have him traced back to the traditional Scots line of the Cragies. For reasons of simplicity and to keep with the theme of these pages, which focus manly on William Wallace and the reasons and situations that made him ‘Scotland’s greatest hero’, we’ll keep to the facts that are well known and true as much as is possible.”

http://www.highlanderweb.co.uk/wallace/truth3.htm

And David R. Ross states:

“The Wallace family did not come from the line of Craigie- or at least
William did not. The Wallaces inherited Craigie around 1370, when a male
Wallace married the Lindsay heiress. As William died in 1305, you will
see this is 65 years out.”

(A side-bar comment: I find it interesting Wm Wallace was home schooled by his mother)

I agree, such a hero as Wallace will be politisied and skewed by the wrong people who would have much to lose if Scotland became an independent nation. As the yankees have rewritten Southern history, so the English will rewrite and downplay Wm Wallace.

I do agree with your accessment of the spiritual battle between god and evil in Scotland. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Thank you for your reply.

A good way to start a fight in a highland pub is to start making statements about William Wallace – esp if you are lowland or a foreigner.

Therefore with some trepidation, I will say the matter is far from settled, even among the experts. And it is intensely politicized.

Those who wish to place Wallace with the Stewarts and the Jacobites (later Jacobins – of the auld alliance with France) claim that his father’s name was Alan – as a follower of Walter Fitzalan. This places him with the Grail lineages of the Scottish nobility, if not in a succession – at least in family alliance.

But Clan Wallace was / is not a Jacobite Clan. Look at the Roll of ’45 or any of the Battle Orders – Clan Wallace isn’t given with the Jacobite Clans.

Not unrelated to this matter, the Earls of Ross did their share of politicking with the Plantagent Council of Scottish nobles and the Plantagent English kings in the matter of the division of lands north of the Forth. And in the vote for the Union of Scottish and English Parliaments – Lord Ross voted with the Jacobites.

What is undisputed is that Wallace was at war with the auld alliance: the Plantagenet Council of the Scottish nobles which swore oath to Edward I – a Plantagenet king and his claims over Scotland.

Of the six branches of Clan Wallace, the Wallace Clan of Cragie are the Wallaces of Elerslie which claims to be his birthplace. The Wallaces of Cragie bore arms for the House of Bruce. To me this explains a lot of history.

In the conflict between the Knights Templars and the Church, Wallace was on the side of the Scotland of Christendom. The Plantagenet Council was on the side of the Plantagenet pre-eminence in the Ordre of Sion and its requirements for the Scottish fief and Templar stronghold.

I think the line in Gibson’s movie Braveheart where Wallace tells the Bruce: “You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position and titles” a line that Randall Wallace who helped to write that script certainly would have approved (if he did not write it himself – to me this rings very true and comes from family history.

I also note that the definitive text of the Grail lineage and mythology: The Bloodline of the Holy Grail (The Hidden Lineage of Jesus Revealed) by Laurence Gardner – the Jacobite Historiographer Royal gives one brief line in his entire gnostic tome (all 615 turgid pages of it) to William Wallace – the undisputed national hero of Scotland. So is Wallace related to or associated with the Stewart or Jacobite interests? For my money no. If they could have proved a relation, I think they would have hyped it to the hilt.

Gardner or rather Sir Laurence Gardner Le Chevalier Labhran de Saint Germain is a Knight of the Temple. His brief mention of Scotland’s national hero is in keeping with the disdain of a Templar and a Son of the Widow for a Son of the Church.

I pay no attention at all to the anthems that the Elites say are the official national anthems. Australia, for example, supposedly elected ‘Advance Australia Fair’ (which no one had ever heard) in the 1980s. Whereas, everyone knows the anthem that captures the spirit of Australia is Waltzing Matilda. And at Gallipoli and Kokoda – the crucible of the nation – the anthem was Waltzing Matilda. You wouldn’t hear that at the Isurava national monument now – the black monoliths on Isurava ridge (which resemble the Kubrick monolith in 2001). The Masons in the Aust War Memorial raised those stones to the stoic virtues. They have higacked the history of Kokoda. All the Christian stories and poetry that came out of the Kokoda campaign and is still living history has been completely suppressed. This is so important, I think I shall find a back post somewhere and put some of it in the comment section.

The Flower of Scotland. Here the national game is rugby: union and league. This is essentially a game of combat. And you can hear a lot of great anthems sung at the Union games. But it isn’t too hard to distinguish the real national anthem when it is sung by 50,00 people. And when Australia is playing, the anthem isn’t Advance Australia Fair. Scotland also plays union and it isn’t too difficult to hear that something special which characterizes the true anthem of the nation when the fans sing The Flower of Scotland in English and Gaelic.

I think it is important that The Flower of Scotland makes reference to King Edward’s defeat at Stirling as the national victory. And of course the Jacobites who think Bannockburn is the national victory will dispute Flur na h’ Alba as the people’s choice – the choice which will be the true national anthem.